You said last issue that you went to see the Stone Roses at a rehearsal - what did you
think ?
I remember feeling totally in tune with their attitude. I've always taken the non establishment line and indie music was a reflection of that mood, but the Roses always struck me as being groundbreaking. You could say I was an instant fan.
What kind of sound did they have then ?
They were nearer to the sound of Second Coming but with much more edge and chaos. The first song that stood out was 'Misery Dictionary', that I asked them to re-title 'So Young'. There were other songs like 'Trust A Fox' and 'All I Want' that used to scare the daylights outa me. Ian had a huge stage presence even then. It was brains, looks and menace, the star combination.
You don't mention his voice ?
Trick question hey ? Ian's voice always moved me and buzzed me up. I also think he's written some of the best lyrics of this generation.
When did you decide to manage them ?
We just started working together. I went to rehearsals and made comments on the sound and the look. Then we started looking at tracks to record. They went into Spirit Studios (Jan 1985) and Tim Oliver produced a demo.
What tracks ?
I think it was Tragic Roundabout / Misery Dictionary / Mission Impossible / Respect.
It obviously impressed you ?
Yes. We talked about a Factory type deal where Thin Line put the single out and I managed them from a record company point of view. It was around this time (Feb 8th 1985) that I got them a slot on "The Best of Manchester Show" that Mark Radcliffe and Tony Michaelides had put together at Dingwalls in London. Tony and Mark were the only DJ's that supported us in Manchester for the first few years.
Was that the first Roses London show ?
No, they played at the Ad Lib club in October 1984 before I got involved.
When did Martin Hannett get involved ?
We formed Thin Line in November 1984 with Tim Chambers who was running Icon FCL, Factory's video company. They were waiting for me to find the right act and after that Dingwalls show I knew the Roses were it. We booked in to Yellow 2 in Stockport in March 1985 and Martin produced 'So Young' and 'Tell Me'.
Did it go well ? I've heard various stories of Martin's studio sessions.
Well, by now the Roses were streetwise but I don't think they had met anyone like Martin before. He was fuelled on Guinness and amphetamine plus pain killers for a raging tooth ache he had at the time.
The band complained he would not let them in the control room. Is that true ?
Not for the mix - we had to stay in the games room until he finished. That's not unusual with a producer like Martin. He also had the air conditioning set on arctic for the session so if you did go into the control room you had to wear a coat.
Why did he do that ?
Who knows ? I think it was a tactic to keep the band out of his face.
Were the band happy with the results ?
They were happy to make a record with Martin but like most bands, they wanted to produce themselves. It's still the same now. Why a band should think that to write and play is the same as producing is beyond me. It takes years behind that desk before you have any style and even then you need talent. We listened to the mix on the way back from Strawberry Studios in the back of Andy Couzens' chevy truck. Halfway into the track, Reni's nose suddenly started to bleed and covered us all with blood. The van pulled up and we jumped out. I was thing he was going to die there was so much blood, but the rest were just calling him for messing up their clothes. We got back in the van and carried on listening to the tape but it shook us all up.
Are you superstitious ?
Yes ! Along with everyone else in the music business. A band can have huge talent but no luck means no deal.
Is it really that bad ?
It's just like life, nothing's for sure until you sign the deal.
When did you release the single 'So Young' ?
Not until September 1985. We went to Sweden first to play some dates.
How did you get dates in Sweden ?
At the start, because Ian had met a guy in Europe the year before, we just packed all the gear into the chevy, begged as much money as we could from our partners (Reni sold his beloved motorbike) and drove down to the ferry (Apr 8 1985).
What kind of dates did you play ?
Clubs, sports halls, youth clubs, you name it. We supported the 'Go Betweens' at Kollingsborg in Stockholm (April 25) and at Kulan Lidingo (April 26 1985) the police arrested the audience for being under age. That's the night when the band got changed into their stage gear in front of the remaining crowd. It was madder than Madchester. The photo on the cover of 'Sally Cinnamon' of John jumping off the roof of the bus was taken that night mid riot.
What was the reaction to the band ?
They loved them. The gigs got loads of press over there. We had a reputation for going to parties every night and eating everything in the kitchen.
Didn't people mind ?
It became a measure of how hip you were to be able to say the Roses had cleaned out your larder. We did a few supermarkets as well but I won't go into that.
What, stealing ?
No, someone gave us the keys and said "Take what you want". I'm being serious, it was like the Dale Winton show. I think it was the making of the Roses. They became the rock beast.
What ? Sex and drugs and rock and roll.
Times ten !
When did you get back to England ?
The end of May 1985. I had some dates booked to promote the single. I spent most of June and July sorting out gigs and press. We used some top people such as Jeff Barrett (now boss of Heavenly Records) to plug the band. In fact I'd forgotten that the Manic Street Preachers supported us at one of the Manchester International dates. I was just trying new ways to promote a band.
You promoted what's now regarded as Manchester's first warehouse party ?
You mean 'The Flower Show' (July 20th 1985). It was Steve Atherton that put it together under the guise of Blackmail Records. I just like the idea of new locations for entertainment. The 'Rave' scene is coming from the same point of view.
Was Martin Hannett mixing the live sound ?
He did some of the shows. My favourite was the Hacienda (Aug 15 1985). It was at that show that the sound really came together. The vocal delays and Reni's drums high in the mix. That show was important to me, being the ex-manager. I was really proud to be part of it. I wish I had a copy of the video. Later that night we decided to record the album. The following week I booked into Strawberry using down time owed to Martin from other sessions.
What tracks did you record ?
Some of the old ones like 'All I Want' and 'Heart On The Staves' and new ones that we hadn't recorded like 'This Is The One' and 'I Wanna Be Adored' that were on the 'Stone Roses' album for Silvertone.
Why did you never release the Martin Hannett album ?
We didn't finish mixing it until December 1985 and in January 1986 the band asked me to fold Thin Line to concentrate on managing them. I had Martin in the studio with the Railway Children and I think that upset them. They could see they would be one of a number of bands I would manage. It became a legal battle. They said they hadn't agreed to the album because we had no contract. We said that five months in the studio together with verbal agreements gave us the rights. They OK'd the release if it was on a major company so I tried to place it with a few companies.
Was there interest ?
Loads. It was then that I found out that Gareth Evans had signed a management deal with them. The head of A & R Records came to Manchester to sign them only to find they had signed to FM Revolver that afternoon. I see now Gareth had to get them a deal (any deal) otherwise he would have lost them that day.
How did you feel about that ?
Shocked. Angry. Gareth had a contract and wanted royalties on everything they did and had done. He tried to buy the Hannett album more than once but we refused.
Do you think it will ever be released ?
Well, Silvertone have talked about it to coincide with a TV indepth that Granada are producing on "The Life and Times of Martin Hannett" but I'll wait and see.
There must be a huge demand for a lost Stone Roses album produced by Martin ?
You would think so. It fills the gap between them starting and Spike Island but for me it's a Hannett album and therein lies its appeal. It's importance to Manchester's musical heritage is equal to 'Spiral Scratch' for the Buzzcocks and 'Closer' for Joy Division, that's why I would like it out. The first time I heard the band play 'This Is The One' in rehearsal I had this vision of a football crowd singing it. During Euro '96 I switched on the TV to watch the England semi with Germany and there was a camera pan of the Wembley crowd with 'This Is The One' in the background. I was taken right back to that very night ten years before.
You're very passionate about music and events ?
It's people power. Music has been and changed my life.
Was that the end of your dealings with the Roses ?
Apart from the legal stuff. They changed lineup over the next few months. Andy Couzens left after refusing to sign Gareth's management contract for quote "a bowl of spaghetti and a haircut" and Pete Garner left because it was getting too heavy.
Heavy in what way ?
The divide and rule tactic that Gareth used in his management style. It stayed with them 'til this last split.
What did you think of Gareth's management of them ?
He's a one-off, Gareth. The kind that only the music business could create. He followed my blueprint and made it better. I think as a manager he did a fantastic job. For a short time they were the only band in the world worth watching.
Were you sad when you heard about this latest split ?
No, not really.
What do you think they will do next ?
I think John will do well solo. He's got talent and writing ability. I think Ian will find it hard, people will hate me for saying it, but for me he was and still is the thing that made the Stone Roses.
NEXT MONTH:
MADCHESTER and Martin Hannett
* Thanks to Mark Thompson for this article *
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