ANDY WATTS has made the progression from drummer / backing vocalist in The Seahorses to singer / songwriter / guitarist of Mozer with ease. Here he speaks to This Is The Daybreak about his early career, The Seahorses and plans for Mozer. Thanks to Andy for taking the time to give this interview.
Andy kindly sent me a demo of Mozer's work, home demos of the band and their promo debut EP, all of which I was highly impressed by. The interview contains exclusive sound clips of their work.
Which drummers, either of the past or contemporary, have influenced your sound the most ? You began playing drums with a band when you were 12 - which drummers caught your ear at that time ?
I was performing in a symphonia by that age. Ed Thigpen, Buddy Rich, Bernard Purdie, jazz guys mostly I suppose. Their flamboyance was incredible both visually and on record. Left me for dead…Influences ? I'd say Iain Paice (check out Fireball by Deep Purple), John Bohnam (Led Zep), Mitch Mitchell (Hendrix), Clem Burke (Blondie), Mike Shrieve (early Santana), Wham Bam by Black Betty - top 70's rock ! The Last Film by Kissing the Pink (military man !), Jimmy Chamberlain (Smashing Pumpkins), Mac McNeily (The Jesus Lizard) Dave Grohl (Nirvana). Jess Lidyard and Cedric Sharpley, who were Gary Numan's original drummers - some first rate boogaloo grooves !
Tell us about the main pre-Seahorses projects that you have been in. Which did you enjoy the most and least ?
Best - a 3 piece - hairy bunch of cheeky monkey's from York called The Burning Wickermen was the most memorable - big barnets !, another 3 piece called Binhoker in London - top. Linus was a bizarre project (two Kathy Bates type anglo american sisters (height of fame was an article in ID magazine and single of the week on Steve Lamaq's show - cool album reviews). Least fun were a band called Sten. Sad, bad Camden haircuts bless. Follically obsessed, egos the size of Saturn. Losers.
You bought your first record at four - what was that record ?!
Somewhat prophetically it was Hard on Me - Gary Glitter ! Morley Asda in Leeds. Me mother aided and abetted me with that one, I'd just watched Woody Woodpecker in a cartoon booth… !
You played in a band (a three-piece) with Stuart Fletcher when you were both teenagers. And you also knew Chris Helme before the formation of The Seahorses. That must have been a bonus in your introduction to The Seahorses, in that you were in familiar surroundings to a certain extent ?
Yeh that helped to a degree, we had a laugh from the start - they were old drinking partners too, so on a social level it was always cheeky, and fairly lairy. I also knew Martin Herbert (John's guitar tech from way back), so it was a close-knit community in many respects.
Am I right in saying that while recognizing the importance of The Stone Roses, they have never been a major influence on your work ? Did that benefit in the sense that you were not overawed by playing with Squire ?
Well you have to acknowledge that if it wasn't for the Roses, The Horse would never have existed - so to that extent I'm indebted to John and his history. And without that, I wouldn't be answering these questions today. But bands like Led Zep, Ten Years After, Helmet, the Jesus Lizard and Fugazi meant more to me back then, and still have more of a relevance today. We did look to John for his opinion and experience on occasion.
Prior to being called up to The Seahorses, you were working full-time doing graphic design and had not played in a band for about eight months. Had you given up playing music for good in your mind at this point ?
No. I'd had enough of struggling financially and design was much more viable at that moment in time.
Did John Squire say at the audition that you were "the first drummer he'd seen who sang and looked truly relaxed behind the kit." ? High praise from someone who has worked with one Alan Wren……..
Something along those lines. I probably looked relaxed because the night before the audition I'd been up most of it working - glued to a computer, so I was fairly lucid and not remotely uptight at the prospect. I nearly gave up on the trip as I was so exhausted from the previous nights shennanigans...
The Seahorses spent approximately 30 days in early 1997 recording Do It Yourself. What was your opinion of DIY a) at the point of its completion and b) today, with five years hindsight ?
On completion I felt we'd produced something that was basically an expensive demo, and I was in doubt as to whether Geffen would release it. Was very unhappy with my playing. I thought it lacked drive and soul. I'd been in the band a matter of days. Today I'm much more comfortable with it. Ain't listened to it for quite some time but it sounds much more valid than it did in '97.
Many see Do It Yourself as the complete antithesis to Ian Brown's Unfinished Monkey Business. There is a definite raw feel to UMB whereas DIY tends to steer clear of experimentation. Would you liked to have seen a few more 'risks' being taken in the creative nature of DIY ?
Oh yeh without a doubt. I've always had a preference for experimental sounds since I was a nipper, discovering Kraftwerk, Devo, Numan, John Foxx, Kissing the Pink, etc. I was surprised as to how 'safe' John perhaps felt it should sound. A mix of the two would have perhaps been exciting.
If you were to choose one artist or album that was influencing each respective member at the time of recording DIY most, what would it be ? Who was everyone listening to most ?
Andy Watts: numerous (went to see a great band play at the Rainbow LA - Stanford Prison Experiment - so perhaps them).
John Squire (had his Jimmy Page obsession mellowed ?): Led Zep bootlegs ahoy ship mate !
Chris Helme: Jeff Buckley I think…you'd have to ask him.
Stuart Fletcher: Jacko Pasturization or whatever he's called (Jaco Pastorius - accurate, but less funny, Ed.).
Did John attempt to write bass-lines for Stuart as he did with Mani circa Second Coming ?
No. Stuart is the nuts on bass. He needs no help with his homework - unlike me !
Early on in The Stone Roses, John and Ian insisted that they themselves would take the majority of the band's royalties. Did John and Chris lay down similar rules with The Seahorses or was there a tacit understanding that those two would write the majority of the body of work ?
Well that doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Socialist values out the fukking window there eh ? Let's just say there was a large amount of naivety on my part, and that I should have been more pragmatic in the arena of finance.
Am I right in saying that Tony Visconti was one of four producers interviewed for the job of producing DIY ? Can you tell us who the other three producers were ?
There was a meeting with Tony, he flew in from the States specially I believe, but that was some time before i joined. As for other three, lord only knows. No one could trace Albini. I think the Pope was easier to contact direct.
It must have been a great experience to work with Visconti ?
Yeh he has a few stories to tell. He knows his strings and things.
He was not the first choice of you or Squire though. Squire said that he originally wanted Steve Albini for the job. In a Guitar Magazine 1997 interview, Squire stated:
'Tony was one of (record label) Geffen's suggestions,' Squire explains. 'I actually wanted to get Steve Albini but I was told they couldn't track him down.'....... 'Mmmm. Maybe Geffen were being duplicitous and trying to keep us apart......
Is it not the more odd that Squire was adamant on a very low drum sound (to your chagrin) when he himself seemed intent on a heavier sound originally ? I can understand that the change of producer would have affected the situation somewhat but it seems almost like an overnight change of mind from Squire - wanting one drum sound one day, then the complete opposite the next ? John is stating his frustration at not achieving the more raucous sound of Albini but John went on to put you through the same frustration ?
Congratulations. You are now in the Guinness Book of Records for the most long winded interview question known to humanity…err indeed. Who can truly understand the mind of a demented linen obsessed psychopath ! Tea towels at dawn !
Ha ha !! Cheeky ! My point (in about 50 less words than the above) is that surely the thing to do would have been to get in a producer based on what sound the band wanted rather than bring in a producer who himself dictates the sound of your project ?
Yup you're not wrong there.
So with a slight twist of fate, we could be sitting today listening to a Do It Yourself along the lines of In Utero as opposed to T-Rex ? You would have preferred that obviously ?
Do bears shit in woods ? Are the Kennedys gun shy ?
Do you see parallels between The Stone Roses debut and The Seahorses debut in that the drum sound level of each is crying out to be turned up ? Could you tell us John Squire's exact words and your response to his pleas for that particular level of drum sound ? Did his general manner appear to be one of 'I'm the leader of this band and what I say goes' or did he attempt to resolve the situation fairly ? Did he ever later express regret at opting for the T-Rex sound of the album ?
Erm , never listened to their first album…Couldn't tell you word for word what John said…this is 5 years back…err…I suppose he was fairly dictatorial, but he did form the band and it was his puppy in that respect, but I always felt we'd have had a much more honest sounding album had Albini recorded it - lotsa live takes, not too many overdubs - that's the way he works, hits record and lets the band graft. No regrets ever expressed - life's too short ain't it ?
As stated above, you expressed discontent with the drum sound on Do It Yourself, stating it was too muffled and should have been brought more to the fore. Looking back, what else would you say could have been improved on the album ? One of The Seahorses' better tracks, in my opinion, is 3 Wide, the b-side to You Can Talk To Me. Personally, I think that DIY could have benefited from one or two more songs of that nature, to provide an alternative to the trad-rock nature of the overall project. What are your own thoughts ? What other styles should have been incorporated ?
Blimey you like 'em big eh ? I've never heard 3 Wide. Got an MP3 of it ? Should've incorporated some African bosa nova with a smidgen of cha cha cha. Some cheeky bleedin big drum loops would've helped. Oh and bag pipes. Bavarian wolf nose flute, interspersed with gregorain chant would also have complimented the overall sonic cathedral.
You are now coming to the fore as a songwriter with Mozer. Would you like to have contributed some songs to DIY ? Did you attempt to at all ?
I was writing and performing tunes way before The Horse appeared on the horizon. Never attempted to push my songs. They were for me and Mozer. That was gonna happen way before that opportunity arose. The fish were in a different kettle.
Did the band and John Squire pay much attention to the reviews in the press ? Most reviews were solid but there were one or two negative comments from the press, for example VOX June 1997, which gave DIY 4/10.
He was always ambivalent - said the press never liked what he did.
What was your instant reaction at hearing such double-meaning lyrics as "Happiness is eggshaped / A penis is egg-shaped" ! A groan or the thumbs-up ?
Not quite what I'd expected, a tad cliched for my liking I'm afraid. Yeh a deffo groan…yawn…
Did any members of the band forward songs that were rejected by other members ? Were all songs penned by Chris and John accepted by the others on all occasions and worked upon ? On leaving The Seahorses, Helme stated that he was not happy singing John's songs. Do you think that this was retrospective sour grapes on his part or can you actually cite a point at which this unease set in on Chris' part ?
Not especially, I remember I expressed a severe dislike of 'my penis is eggshaped' and 'stale of the century' - really disliked the latter - so did Chris I think. No vibe to them. No sour grapes involved on Chris' part - how can you really mean it when you're singing another individual's lyrics ? No matter what the content ? It comes from within. Not from some other soul.
Almost carbon-copy riffs from Stone Roses work can be heard throughout Do It Yourself (I Am The Resurrection on Suicide Drive, Love Spreads on Love Is The Law). And samples of Squire's influences also - Massive Attack's Unfinished Sympathy string arrangement at the end of The Boy In The Picture. For you, does this show Squire nodding to his past and influences, or does it illustrate the lack of ideas (and originality) inherent in his work post-Roses ?
I'd have to first educate meself in the way of the Roses….but I'd probably opt for the latter illustrative route. But you can't knock a top tune like The Boy In The Picture.
Mani has claimed that the Squire-penned Seahorses tracks on DIY were written by John while in the Roses. Can you shed any light on that ? What stage were the Squire-penned tracks on DIY at when you first met him ?
No light on in me shed there. The ditty's were at rough demo stage.
Squire has been accused of lethargy in his career, releasing approximately one album every five years. Do you think that artists such as Squire and Lee Mavers (of The La's) are right to spend years poring over their respective projects until they are entirely satisfied with them ? Or are each not putting their talents to full effect ?
The songwriting progress can be a long and winding road (!). Every individual has their own unique approach, it's a craft and this deserves time, love and patience…but yeh fukk me…five years eh ? Can't you rocket out to Jupiter and back or summet in that amount of time ?
Almost every music press seems to be championing Ian Brown (3 albums and counting) as 'the main inspiration behind The Stone Roses' due to his superior post-Roses output to Squire (1 album to date at the time of this interview). Do you see this as a little unfair though ? Personally, I think the reason why Ian has went for the jugular more post-Roses is that he had something to prove when the Roses split (he wrote one tune in a period of five years with the Roses - Straight To The Man). Whereas Squire had his 'time' or 'moment' with Second Coming (mostly penned by him) and possibly did not feel the need to prove himself to a certain extent subsequently.
There goes another. I can fully understand why the press are digging the magic of the monkey man - 3 top albums with some banging tunes, loadsa' cool sounds, pushing all the right buttons…versus 1 trad rock album. Gimme the Ian Brown gig any day. As I think I previously stated, I was expecting some big beats circa Fools Gold, but they never came.
Some say that Squire undersold himself by forming The Seahorses and should instead have lent his talents to perhaps an already established outfit. From your time in private (and public) spent with John Squire, did he appear in general to be fulfilled by the project The Seahorses ?
Oh yeh without a doubt. Happy as a pig in poo. Generally an upbeat bloke.
What was your reaction to seeing him perform at Knebworth with Oasis ?
Never seen it…you'd have to ask Chris and Stu…they were by the side of the stage I believe.
John dictated the sound level of your drums in the studio. Did he attempt to do the same in the live arena, to increase the force of his own output on guitar ? Ian Brown used to complain that he could not hear his own vocals, such was the sound level of John's guitar live.
Ha ha ha ha !!!!!! Pardon ? What did you just say ??! I'm sorry ?? On ocassion it could feel like we were in the Johnny Squire All Star Show !
Did John socialize much with the rest of the band after gigs, etc ? Or did the reclusiveness of Second Coming era Squire resurface ?
Yeh we all partied together 7 times outta 10. As I said we had a pretty good time on the whole. Touring is a beautiful way to see the world. Hotel rooms beckoned you early every now and again.
Who would you cite as the:
a) most important band of the last 15 years ?
b) most important artist of the last 15 years ?
c) best drummer of the last 15 years ?
Important in what respect ? Nigh impossible to answer, but err here goes…Probably be Nirvana for a); DJ Shadow for b), err c) I suggest Dave Grohl for his energy, drive and ferocious live power - incredible. Not the most technical player, but I'll never forget seeing them live in 1991.
How do you rate the drummers that succeeded you in The Seahorses ?
'Twas a Spinal Tap-esque succession was it not ?! Toby Drummond (1st replacement - played in Mozer briefly) is the fukkin nuts technically - great groove merchant. Dunno about the other guys, heard Mark Heaney is efficient.
While it appears unlikely the Seahorses will reform, do you think that you will ever work with any of the other Seahorses again ?
Never say Never. Funnily enough, just been offered a gig with Chris' band Superzero in North Yorks…should be fun.
A demo of the second album has popped up but has yet to be released in the public domain. Do you know of any other recordings, in particular, unheard songs by The Seahorses, which have been kept back from release. Is there much in the vaults ?
Sorry, no idea.
What were your options post-Seahorses ? I know you had Mozer already in the pipeline to a certain extent. But what else did you consider ?
Nowt really, auditioned for a coupla bands, but my heart wasn't in it - couldn't play someone else's tunes any longer.
Are there any producers in particular that you would like to work with in Mozer ? Who in particular epitomizes the sound that Mozer are striving for ?
Danny Saber, Steve Lironi, Steve Albini - a combination of the three. Not that we could afford any of 'em. Me dad's available I hear…
How much material do you and the band currently have written ? How would you describe the range of style of the songs ?
Approx 2 albums worth. Corpulent bloated prog rock techno pop to urban hill billy ho-down hicksville.
Between what period were the songs written approximately ? Do the basis of some of the songs originate from your Seahorses days ?
Some go as far back as '95.
When can we expect Mozer's debut album ? What are your plans for its release ? Will it be available through your website as well as the shops ?
I'd anticipate something by next year. We've got a few labels / publishers sniffing about, it's fairly healthy, as well as airplay in the States.
Do you hope to play some more gigs before entering the studio to make the album ? Is a full UK tour on the cards ?
I very much hope so. Touring is top.
What show(s) with Mozer have you enjoyed most to date ?
A nostalgia fest in Bristol supporting The Complete Stone Roses funnily enough. 'Ian' had a fine Manc acccent for a Glaswegian. Complete cabaret. Loadsa' bangin shows round London recently.
I have heard the four track demo of your work and was highly impressed - BELIEVE and URNOTKNOWN especially are outstanding. Do you intend to release this as an EP or will these tracks form part of the album ?
I'd imagine they'll wend their way onto the album, but it's a group decision at the end of the day.
The guitar playing is superb (the outro to URNOTKNOWN in particular stands out) and the range of your singing on these tracks is to be applauded (for example, the Syd Barrett-esque Astronomy Domine high-pitched vocals 2 minutes into URNOTKNOWN).
The following are sound clips from the excellent 4 Track demo CD that Andy sent me. Click on the relevant link, or right click over the link and choose 'Save Target As....':
All four songs have the strength to be singles for me. Are any of these intended for release as a single ?
Thanks for the compliments - I'd imagine the first three mentioned - HOMEFROMHOME is a great album track in my opinion. A deal would help !
You have a website for the band - http://www.mozer.co.uk (excellent design by the way). What new features can we expect to see on there in future - what are your plans ? MP3s for instance ?
Indeed - we'll have more sounds and pictures available as time moves on. It's a question of finding the time. It'd be great to have a message board like yourself. I'll have to brush up on me programming skills…
On Mozer, you are responsible for vocals, programming and guitars. Can we expect to hear you drumming on any of the tracks ? Do you still practise your drumming or are you concentrating on fulfilling your role as singer / songwriter / guitarist ?
Yeh I still play - got a coupla kits in the attic studio - I tend to demo stuff at home first, lay basic parts down for most of the instrumentation, then we work on the song as a band. Nothing is set in stone at that stage - so it's really up to the group as to what they want to bring to the party. I'd like to play (drums) perhaps one song on the album, dunno which one.
I have not seen your band live yet but will be doing so at the first opportunity. How different do the band sound live compared to the studio ? Is there much jamming / experimentation on songs ?
Live I feel is where we really excel. Much heavier and more err corpulent ! I love that word ! Not that I've gained weight or owt ! We haven't yet captured that energy on tape - it's a tough gig. Music is about experimentation for me, we push the boundaries of the songs live on occasion, when it feels appropriate.
Was there a conscious decision from the outset to give the drums more prominence post-Seahorses, given your frustration in that respect with Do It Yourself ?
Well, there's two drummers in the group, so they're gonna be prominent ! I adore weighty, full sounding and rounded recordings a la Golden Gaze (it's one of the best recordings I've heard in years). But DIY was no yardstick - apart from the strings on that album I think the production is fairly weak, considering the time and studio involved. The demo is a reasonable representation of how we sound as a band today - a lot of it was recorded live and self produced.
Are there any artists out there who you would like to work with, either now or at some point in your career ?
Might ask John to do a turn on our debut - shake a tambourine or summet ! Maybe Mondrian. Possibly Picasso. Definitely Degas.
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In March 2003, Andy Watts sent TITD a tape of Mozer home demos and a splendid promo Mozer debut EP.
The self produced debut EP, entitled bymyside, has the following tracklisting. Andy has kindly allowed me to upload clips of the three new songs. Click on the relevant link, or right click over the link and choose 'Save target as....':
3. soakupthesound (semi acoustic version)
4. bymyside (full version)
The EP was recorded at The Instrument (Mute Records) with Ray Mascarenas (Chemical Brothers,
Super Furry Animals) and Kevin Paul (Appliance, Moby, Luke Slater, Goldfrapp).
Following Mozer, Andy Watts established himself as a solo artist. In 2005, Andy sent me an 'acoustic roughs' CD, which can be viewed below. To visit his website, click here.
Below I have compiled a list of all Mozer and Andy Watts solo tracks to date, which I will continue to update:
With Mozer:
Believe
By My Side
Come To Your Senses
Half The Seed Is Sown
Hands Across The Land
Home From Home
Lawn Life
Mr Good News
My Mother Cried
Smother
Soak Up The Sound
Someone Needs To Know
U R Not Known
Solo:
Believe
Bird Box
Born Of Stars
Broken Bones
Come To Your Senses
Do Or Die
Dragonfly
Father's Footsteps
Hummer
Lawn Life
Lead Your Own Life
Line
Loose Change
Mr Good News
My Own Time
No Father Found
Picture This
Picture Within
Really The Reason
Rhapsody Of Light
Sorry To Say
Sum Other Son
Sun Cries In The Sky
Terms & Conditions
The House Of Orange
The Red Room
The Sun And The Moon
The World Of Hearts Right Here
Trapped By Time
Try To Abide
Unsung
U R Not Known
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